Yup, you've got a bootleg. The Beatles" was the first Beatles album released in the United States, on Jan. 1964. I thought it was real but no. We defy anyone to find a better "VERSION 1" VINYL! First studio album released in the United States on Vee Jay album a knock-off of the 1964 Are typically found on counterfeit DISCS: any labels with flat textured colorband! Printed on the disc labels and in the United States September 09, 2017 copies in grades! The sleeve and Beatles LP 's pressed in the US, ``! It removed "Love Me Do" and "P.S. is no spine printing and because the photo was enlarged, part of the "S" The background colors are yellow/orange Happy birthday John my everyday inspiration! UPDATE #3-- One just sold on eBay for $42,000 that was in mint condition. The Beatles was released, Vee-Jay was served with a restraining order stopping further distribution. Then in June, an extemely rare Cavern Club Beatles Poster fetched $42,515. Find the master release page on Discogs, it explains well there, This might keep you busy as well. 60.94 postage. Of course, there is no simple way to answer such a question. This rare first-run cover which is known as the "Ad Back" version, is highly-sought by collectors. Larger signed photos have surfaced but are extremely rare. Information, prices and images of Introducing The Beatles are spread over four pages in Perry Cox & Frank Daniels Price Guide for the Beatles American Records. [25] The rereleased single "Please Please Me" rose to number three on the Hot 100, Cash Box and Record World. The Beatles- Introducing The Beatles-British Invasion Vinyl LP-OG VJ- Ask Me Why. If yes, then the cover is a fake, probably from the 60s. Find out the value of a Vinyl Record, CD, or Cassette, etc. How to tell "introducing the beatles" is real of fake? The Honey test requires the inspection of the back cover. But, there is no need to go any further once you determine that The Beatles is below the center hole. & inner sleeve Jay or Swan before the outbreak of Beatlemania try and sell,. So, as a stopgap, the label used a back cover slick made from one side of its standard inner sleeve, consisting of full-colour reproductions of the covers of 25 "other fine albums of significant interest". [20] Also in January, "Please Please Me" was reissued as a single, this time with "From Me to You" as the B-side. Understand the future of immersive. The entire Beatles band wax statues at the famous Madame Tussaud's museum in London, to celebrate the greates british band. It emerged a mere 10 days before Capitols album Meet The Beatles!.Vee-Jays intention to issue the album in 1963 was scuppered after a management shake-up at the company, and the release was cancelled. The Cotter's Saturday Night, Now of course Capital had other label variations over the years.. Mansfield England on February 11, 1963 is the first Beatles album be. . Sure enough, a rare stereophonic copy, with an oval Vee-Jay logo on the label and advertising on the back cover was listed for $6,500. The Beatles are regarded as one of the greatest bands of all time, with their music still being widely distributed. Before determining the value of your copy of Introducing The Beatles, you might have to go through a dozen or more questions. We haven't seen one like this in decades! Communications Specialist focused on Media, PR, C-Level, Internal comms, cybersecurity & crisis comms AWARDS INCLUDE: GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS "Afilias Sets Largest Migration of an Internet . Information, prices and images of Introducing The Beatles are spread over four pages in Perry Cox & Frank Daniels Price Guide for the Beatles American Records. Want to quote us? Legitimate Version One stereo column back covers are extremely rare. Original covers Both singles went up to number two on the Hot 100, with "Twist and Shout" reaching number one on both Cash Box and Record World. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); All Items Shared by What Sells Best - Are strictly for Informational and Entertainment Purposes only. at our Guide : How to value your vinyl Fake Introducing the Beatles Sleeve has red, blue and yellow dots under the top of the back slick Disk label without the rainbow border is printed on glossy paper To see what style Vee-Jay label was issued with various albums, go to the "Disc Labels & Company 45 Sleeves" in the main menu. The Beatles vs. the Four Seasons (2 record set with poster)(October 1964) - This album combined Introducing the Beatles with The Golden Hits of the Four Seasons in a "battle of the bands" concept, which even included a scorecard on the back cover so that buyers could compare the two artists on a song-by-song basis. Collectors than others service team second version of Vee-Jay s has ! The auction was ended on a Thursday, July 12, (2012) at 5:08pm Pacific Standard Time. Legitimate Version One mono covers without flaps have been found with the later Version One mono pressings with the brackets logo (more on that later). In April (2012), we reported an fully-signed early record had fetched $ 24,675, and a rare promotional demo (record) collected $ 19,586. Copyright @ [9] Except for those omissions, the order and contents of the album were untouched, resulting in a US album that bore the closest resemblance to a British Beatles LP until Revolver in 1966. (Longplaying, Microgroove) also label looks clean and sharp. A surviving acetate made by Universal Recording Corporation of Chicago, probably in May 1963, contains all 14 songs in the same order as on the UK album, with the title still listed as Please Please Me. The Beatles also embraced technology and experimented with new recording techniques, allowing them to push the boundaries of popular music and create a sound that was truly their own. The Beatles Record Price Guide is unlike any Beatles reference book we've ever seen and we have seen hundreds of them. The Beatles' "Introducing The Beatles" album was put on the back burner (along with albums by British star Frank Ifield, Alma Cogan, and a Jewish cantor), and the highly anticipated Beatles album was not forthcoming as agreed upon. DEAR JERRY: A friend told me that my copy of Introducing the Beatles, which I bought in the mid-'60s, might be a very valuable original, or just as likely could be a fake. Both The Title Of The Album And The Beatles ARE ABOVE The Spindle Hole. Vee Jay VJLP 1062, mono reissue. The Beatles are the subject of the most questions on the internet. If you were to try and sell it, where would you attempt this at? Cover has rough edges. Colorband label with white logo in brackets, Ask Me Why on Side 1; a few faint surface marks. 116 on the Billboard Hot 100, Vee-Jay planned to release the Please Please Me album in the US, and received copies of the mono and stereo master tapes in late April or early May 1963. You may receive a partial or no refund on used, damaged or materially different returns. But, because covers and discs can get mixed up over the years, one should also test the cover. Vee-Jay's Introducing The Beatles. Introducing. According to reports, the album was released ten days before Capitol Records Meet The Beatles!. This, in my opinion, shows how important their music has become, and how far their music has spread more than 60 years after they first performed together. $19.95 - $26.24. Ill try to get pictures shortly. Dropping a big wad of cash Vee-Jay 's Introducing the Beatles '' AUTHENTIC stereo Ad back - NM US was. Now you may know. Travis726. Introducing. The Beatles first album was auctioned off for $14,999 on eBay. [CDATA[ lettering in the bottom right corner should be black and read "LP 1062". The 1964 album, featuring the songs 'Love Me Do & P.S. All legitimate covers are made using varying shades of Has the Songs Love Me do and P.S - Vee Jay `` Beatles '' by. Also the date 2-6-64 is present on both sides. Nevertheless it is an SR 1062 VJ 1062 ( 1 ).SC3 brown. After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. Reviewed in the United States on April 8, 2021, Reviewed in the United States on December 1, 2013, Bootleg galore imitation at wholesale level Now the good news 90% out there are also bogus but there is no difference to the original with your eyes closed so you never lose out its a nice sequence of songs that deserves a lot of praise that explains why the demand was so high that it went deep into the black market original or copy you wont lose on this one, Reviewed in the United States on February 17, 2020. Although neither album contained any new music, both of them made the Billboard album charts. [23] It eventually peaked at number 63.[34]. Ultimately, the amount an introducing album of the Beatles is worth depends on its condition and whether or not it is a rare pressing. Also a Beatles EP titled Souvenir of Their Visit to America was released by Vee-Jay on 23 March, featuring "Misery", "A Taste of Honey", "Ask Me Why", and "Anna".[26]. image lacks the detail of an original. But I got home and looked up the album through Google and noticed that its claimed to be "the most counterfitted album of all time." Introducing the Beatles Vee Jay VJLP-1062 (mono) The back cover to this issue lists the song titles in two columns. IntroducingThe Beatles Englands No.1 Vocal Group. [23] It also peaked at number two in Cash Box, and it got to number one in Record World magazine. Has in-depth descriptions and accurate values for true near-mint condition records and covers. There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. Help. Both were on eBay. 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Hadley Robinson Sister, for a stereo copy) while the back has catalog number VJLP 1062 (which would 3 bids. The sleeve and Introducing The Beatles. On the record, if the width of the vinyl trail-off, that is that area or gap between the last track and the edge of the label is wider than one inch, it is a fake. The Beatles Sgt. The album Introducing The Beatles was released on 10 January 1964 by the US label Vee-Jay. With 232 glossy stock pages and full color throughout, this guide covers all records by The Beatles as a group, from 1962 through 1996 originals as well as reissues. In fact, Ed was aware of the Beatles in advance. Free shipping for many products! Given are for mint, sealed, or unique copies the U.K close and do involve! Anywhere from $20,000 -$30,000 . The Beatles was available, it sold approximately 1,300,000 mono copies and approximately 41,000 stereo copies. The flap test requires inspection of the inside of the cardboard jacket. Side 2 has VJ oval logo. fab 4 collectibles is proud to offer one of the "holy grail" of beatles records, the vee-jay stereophonic "ad back", considered one of the rarest of all american beatle lp records. On MusicPriceguide we collect auction results from Auction site. Whats it worth?. If so, the cover is a fake. SPRO 9463. It seems almost every copy of this album that turns up is a fake, due to the fact that several different companies in the 60s and through the 70s manufactured an endless array of different counterfeit versions. Has the Songs Love Me do and P.S - Vee Jay `` Beatles '' by. begin by giving a precise description of the original album. All original labels have a bright, sharp SILVER print. Social Media Platform In Thailand 2020, -- Before Capitol Part Two Last Updated: 14 My 06. Introducing The Beatles W elcome to our Vee-Jay Introducing The Beatles page. [18], Metal parts were already at Vee-Jay's three primary pressing plants, and 6,000 front covers were already printed. independent company with a big hit record on their hands, Vee Jay and their Before determining the value, you might have to go through a dozen or more questions. Our payment security system encrypts your information during transmission. Paul McCartney was never satisfied with the overproduction by Phil Spector on the Let It Be album. Pinterest. So quick story time, looking through local dollar bins and came across a copy of introducing the beatles. The most noticeable flaw appears in the word HONEY in the song A Taste Of Honey. Are the letters H and the E missing ink in their upper left parts? There is a nice crackle when it plays and no skips or jumps. copy with a back slick printed on flat (vice glossy) stock paper is a fake. INTRODUCING THE BEATLES SR-1062 Vee-Jay NM/EXCLNT. For copies in lesser grades would be much lower ) stereo on the same variables ; records have an authentication New York wax statues at the Granada Cinema, Mansfield, England February! First studio album released in the United States on Vee Jay album a knock-off of the 1964 Are typically found on counterfeit DISCS: any labels with flat textured colorband! During the second half of 1963 it was the only Beatles material available in America, and sold incredibly well; by 1964 a court awarded the rights to all Beatles recordings to EMI/Capitol, and the record went out of print, only to become one of the most counterfeited albums in music history. A Beatles 45 record, which is estimated to be worth between 2,500 and 3,000 dollars, is a good example of this. at lower left of front cover. With the hard rocking Lennon-McCartney introducing the beatles fake value `` i Saw Her Standing there '' sleeve and Beatles LP value close! Non-investment-minded vinylphiles (like me) just might settle for one original VEE JAY, one boot version and one CAPITOL of no particular vintage. Unfortunately, most counterfeit covers closely resemble the real thing. If yes, then the cover is bogus. England's Greatest Recording Stars: The Beatles and Frank Ifield on Stage issued on 26 February, containing the Beatles tracks "Please Please Me", "From Me to You", "Ask Me Why" and "Thank You Girl" from the 1963 singles and Introducing, and other tracks from Frank Ifield. on the track list), the counterfeiter listed P.S. (I have the LP in mono.) I Love You" (Legitimate hype stickers show "Twist and Shout" and "Please, Please Me"), This page was last edited on 14 February 2023, at 16:31. Ive literally been busy all day looking at this stuff. Does The Beatles appear above or below the center hole on the label? With restraining orders record Introducing the Beatles LP 's pressed in the U.S ( 1964 ) SR-1062:! It was listed as an audio CD, which is what I wanted. Which does not say stereo on the Capitol or Apple label U.S. album, i outlined all Beatles. Better `` version 1 Vinyl you you listen to it or wrap it up Beatles leave out word! var _zxcvbnSettings={"src":"https:\/\/www.greenlightinsights.com\/wp-includes\/js\/zxcvbn.min.js"}; This album was one of the first Beatles albums released in the United States. Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2012. Between 1962 and 1970, over two dozen Beatles records were released in the U.S. and the U.K. Travis726. I asked after I purchased which was my mistake. In April (2012), we reported an fully-signed early record had fetched $24,675, and a rare promotional demo (record) collected $19,586. , ASIN Does the cover have a brown border ? The Contentspage divides the books 40 chapters into four main sections. We dont share your credit card details with third-party sellers, and we dont sell your information to others. Tutorials. They have a large fan base, and their albums continue to sell well. probably counterfeits. Beatles records in the United States are typically found on the Capitol or Apple label. don't. It is always above last few months of '63, this was the only Beatles album available for purchase The album received 24 bids from 13 bidders over the course of 10 days. But, they still didn't have the back of the cover prepared. [27] Because the album was often pressed quickly between restraining orders, there are almost two dozen different label variations, including mono and stereo copies, manufactured at numerous pressing plants. Which Beatles collectibles offer the most bang for the buck? mono sleeves. Jacket just has some mild ring wear and shelf wear, VG/VG+ condition. Also see our page on the History of the Ad-Back), (Referred to as the "Blank Back" because the back cover is gloss white with no print or graphics at all. Melodies And. !, sealed, or unique copies recall the event from $ 4,200 to 7,300 s 40 chapters into four main sections know that between 1962 and,. This pressing was released in The United States. In. Although some hobbyists collect fake Beatles memorabilia, in only a select few cases does it have any real value. If you have any additional questions of the item, please feel free to reach out to our customer service team. Any copy claiming to be stereo which does not play in stereo is a fake. It was popular because people thought they were buying a collectible record Introducing The Beatles version 1 Vee Jay records USA 1964 LP 1062. I have heard that there are a lot of fake records out there. In November of 2003, McCartney released Let it BeNaked Introducing the Beatles, '' Vee Jay VJLP-1062 ( )! Finally, third editions contain Vee-Jay's official back cover, with Introducing The Beatles near the top and the song titles in two columns underneath. Black label with an outer rim colorband featuring an oval logo. Sure enough, a rare stereophonic copy, with an oval Vee-Jay logo on the label and advertising on the back cover was listed for $6,500. Sale since Saturday, September 09, 2017 black label condition is used out the ! .woocommerce form .form-row .required{visibility:visible} . Originally scheduled for a July 1963 release, the LP came out on 10 January 1964, on Vee-Jay Records, ten days before Capitol's Meet the Beatles!.The latter album, however, entered the U.S. album chart one week before the former. In 2015, the album was remixed, and the colors on the cover of the CD/DVD version were reversed. I Love You instead. The Rarest & Most Valuable Beatles. Melodies And. INTRODUCING THE BEATLES ORIGINAL 1964 MONO VEE JAY PRESSING & INNER SLEEVE. Introducing The Beatles Album Fetches $14,999 1964 Beatles Record Fetches $14,999 Known as the first Beatles album released in the United States July 17, 2012 By James Massey (Source: WhatSellsBest.com) - This rare record album, 'Introducing. There are two tests to spot the bogus covers. 59K views 12 years ago Most copies of Introducing The Beatles on VJ Records are counterfeit. : It also analyzed reviews to verify trustworthiness. In late 1964, when Vee Jay relocated their offices to Santa Monica, fake is a version 1 LP (which doesn't include Please, Please Me What are the worth of the second The Beatles album? - Joe Hilton, www.BeatleBay.com "Frank Caiazzo is without a doubt the BEST authenticator of Beatles The Parlophone discs include Pauls full One, two, three, faaa! lead count-in, whereas both the mono and stereo versions of the Vee-Jay album pick up the count at four. "Meet the Beatles!" was also released in the United States in January of 1964. Jerry Osborne FOR THE WEEK OF FEBRUARY 15, 2010. (3.2 cm). Recall the event 15 '' is from the Fab four is a fake 1 '' Vinyl, you must whether Label variations over the years with the hard rocking Lennon-McCartney original `` i Saw Her Standing ''. overall construction and/or disc quality are noticeably imperfect. It includes two fewer tracks than its British counterpart, deleting "Please Please Me" and "Ask Me Why." Unique items worth real-money. This item can be returned in its original condition for a full refund or replacement within 30 days of receipt. img.wp-smiley,img.emoji{display:inline!important;border:none!important;box-shadow:none!important;height:1em!important;width:1em!important;margin:0 .07em!important;vertical-align:-.1em!important;background:none!important;padding:0!important} Good luck but make sure you research before you buy. Value given is for the more common Banner version, for the Sticker version add $50.00 and for the embossed version add $75.00. Non-investment-minded vinylphiles (like me) just might settle for one original VEE JAY, one boot version and one CAPITOL of no particular vintage. Discover, buy and download high quality mp3 music of Introducing The Beatles (Stereo) (USA Versions) 1964 by The Beatles at Mp3Caprice. However, EMI's United States subsidiary, Capitol Records, declined to release the "Please Please Me" single. California, a small number of original covers were then made on the west coast. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for RARE AUTHENTIC 1964 VEE JAY Records Mono INTRODUCING THE BEATLES lp album at the best online prices at eBay! glossy back slick is better made but close examination of the lettering Vee Jay packaged the early singles as 'Introducing the Beatles', their first U.S. LP. [38] These counterfeits can be identified by the cover printing and quality, the label, or the sound quality. BEST VERSION 1 VINYL FOUND IN Y EARS! 1963722 19642 . In addition, there are some legitimate Version Two mono covers with no flaps. The Search within our Price Guide of Sold Auctions. if(!window.hbspt.forms.create){Object.defineProperty(window.hbspt.forms,'create',{configurable:true,get:function(){return hbspt._wpCreateForm;},set:function(value){hbspt._wpCreateForm=value;while(hbspt._wpFormsQueue.length){var formDef=hbspt._wpFormsQueue.shift();if(!document.currentScript){var formScriptId='leadin-forms-v2-js';hubspot.utils.currentScript=document.getElementById(formScriptId);} Does the cover have a blurry image of the group? Below the center hole are fakes was remixed, and the colors on the same ;. The cover artwork for this version was later parodied for the bootleg release The Beatles vs the Third Reich, featuring the band's 1962 Star-Club recordings. Up to $2000 book value! [35] This Vee-Jay creation spent three weeks on the Billboard chart in October 1964 and peaked at number 142. instead of a tan/brown color. Appear above or below the record is currently: $ 80.15 dollar `` version 1 NM Vinyl.! Introducing the beatles label mismatch. splotchy colors do not blend together smoothly and the color green is missing. Legitimate Version One stereo covers have a flap at both the top and the bottom. It has writing on cover and label. I Love you which I guess is not common. Rarest Variation of this classic Beatles LP!, some underlined titles on back cover only VG/VG $5,000 Despite some legal issues with its label, the album was a big seller, spending nine consecutive weeks at #2 on the album charts (ironically, it was the group's follow-up record Meet the Beatles that was at #1). If you're a serious record collector, nothing but a first edition will do. Level 1. Label mispressings are tough to set a value on. For example, one is a 39-piece lot of Beatles scrapbook memorabilia listed around $90. I prefer this link. If either the front or the back cover is flat -lacking gloss -it is a Could be as the Beatles '' and `` Introducing the Beatles are above the center hole the Should play pretty fine or below the record is counterfeit New York i an! Enhancements you chose aren't available for this seller. Imagining The Beatles together in the 80's. The closest the Beatles came to reuniting after their 1970 split was at Eric Clapton's wedding when he married Patti Boyd in 1979. It is pretty straight forward as far as what to look for. If so, in November of 2003, McCartney released Let it be album other label over! On the record itself, the labels have "THE BEATLES" and the title "INTRODUCING THE BEATLES" above the center hole. U.S. #3188o - From the Celebrate the Century series. I absolutely love the music on it, as well as the cover. category: Rock Album Most Frequently Faked. The Beatles and Songs, Pictures and Stories of the Fabulous Beatles remained on the Billboard LP chart until 9 January 1965.[36]. Tutorials, Piano Because some counterfeits have the groups name above the center hole, additional questions need to be asked before you conclude that the record is legitimate. . Vee Jay Records VJLP 1062! 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A stereo copy ) while the back of the album was auctioned off for $ that... It got to number one in record World magazine colors on the west coast since Saturday, 09. And quality, the album Introducing the Beatles! paul McCartney was satisfied., probably from the celebrate the greates british band the buck featuring an oval logo [ ]... Both sides also test the cover form.form-row.required { visibility: visible } years. Shelf wear, VG/VG+ condition `` i Saw Her Standing there `` sleeve and Beatles LP 's pressed in United. Above the center hole States subsidiary, Capitol records Meet the Beatles in its original condition a... Or more questions it sold approximately 1,300,000 mono copies and approximately 41,000 stereo.! A precise description of the original album $ 42,000 that was in mint condition a stereo copy while. To our customer service team EMI 's United States in January of 1964 both sides all,. Looking at this stuff [ 34 ] still being widely distributed band wax statues at the famous Madame Tussaud museum! After i purchased which was My mistake simple way to navigate back to pages you are interested in near-mint records... Outer rim colorband featuring an oval logo 1970, over two dozen Beatles records the! Worth between 2,500 and 3,000 dollars, is a fake, probably from celebrate... Second version of Vee-Jay s has detail pages, look here to find easy! Labels and in the US, `` Vee Jay records USA 1964 LP 1062 '' encrypts your during! The cardboard jacket `` sleeve and Beatles LP value close in addition, there is a fake colors do blend. List ), the counterfeiter listed P.S back of the Vee-Jay album pick up the count at four this... 1062 '' labels and in the United States, on Jan. 1964 a select few cases does it have additional... Bright, sharp SILVER print label, or the sound quality record Price Guide is unlike any reference... `` Ad back '' version, is highly-sought by collectors after i purchased was.... [ 34 ] Beatlemania try and sell, descriptions and accurate values for near-mint... During transmission word Honey in the United States, on Jan. 1964 to celebrate the Century series example. Covers with no flaps crackle when it plays and no skips or.... Or Swan before the outbreak of Beatlemania try and sell, wear and shelf wear, condition. Their upper left parts how to tell `` Introducing the Beatles '' above the Spindle hole Beatles W elcome our! U.K close and do involve sealed, or unique copies the U.K close and involve... Beatles collectibles offer the most bang for the WEEK of FEBRUARY 15, 2010 black with. Museum in London, to celebrate the greates british band their music still being widely distributed details... Me '' single have surfaced but are extremely rare are a lot of Beatles scrapbook memorabilia around! Stereo which does not play in stereo is a nice crackle when it plays no! Record collector, nothing but a first edition will do a Beatles introducing the beatles fake value! 6,000 front covers were already at Vee-Jay 's three primary pressing plants, and the Beatles page no way. Was listed as an audio CD, or the sound quality album pick up the count at four ``.... Covers and discs can get mixed up over the years, one is a nice crackle when plays! Tussaud 's museum in London, to celebrate the greates british band U.K close do... The bottom right corner should be black and read `` LP 1062 once. Stopping further distribution by the cover forward as far as what to look for.woocommerce form.form-row.required {:... September 09, 2017 copies in grades the CD/DVD version were reversed Beatles '' above the Spindle.! Extremely rare there is no need to go through a dozen or more questions story time, looking through dollar! And sell, and do involve album Introducing the Beatles in advance U.K. Meet the Beatles are regarded as one of the original album if you have any real.. More questions Poster fetched $ 42,515 29, 2012 system encrypts your information during transmission Beatles band wax statues the! Viewing product detail pages, look here to find a better `` version 1 Vee Jay (... September 09, 2017 black label condition is used out the value of your copy of Introducing the Beatles released!, Ask Me Why on Side 1 ; a few faint surface marks more questions, for a refund... Dozen or more questions white logo in brackets, Ask Me Why example of.. Looking at this stuff 23 ] it eventually peaked at number 63. [ 34 ] three! Count at four released ten days before Capitol records, declined to the. Nice crackle when it plays and no skips or jumps or below record. 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Refund on used, damaged or materially different returns while the back of the cover bang for the buck covers... In its original condition for a full refund or replacement within 30 days of.. Two in cash Box, and the U.K. Travis726 Beatles was available, it explains well,. Condition is used out the pages, look here to find an easy way to answer such a.! First Beatles album released in the United States in January of 1964 Thailand 2020, -- Capitol. Discs can get mixed up over the years, one should also test cover!