"This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. NOT for bike related questions. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. 05 srx awd v6 (gone), '07 GXP, 2010 li'l red wagon 3.6. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. 15. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. Published, Your email address will not be published. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. 2. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. . Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? You may onto something here. Do not force it on. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The bypass valve is to bypass the filter if it becomes plugged. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Talk to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM reprogramming done. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. If so how do you replace it? we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. 22. JavaScript is disabled. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. So, if you are planning to drive your vehicle for a long time, the best decision is to replace the whole kit and forget about any problems with a rattling chain. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. To make a long story short, two of the . Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. Subscribe for updates! Timing chain rattle, KA24E. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Welcome Guest! The key thing is to not burn out your starter. E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. full of oil when engine is off. Some timing chains drive the water pump, too, and sometimes the engine must be removed to replace a timing chain. Check the valve cover gasket. By Engine Builder. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. I want to know all of the problems. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. Then stop at the TDC mark. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. Replaced: primary timing chain, secondary timing chains, exhaust and intake phasers, main timing chain tensioner, every gasket/o-ring/seal in the process following FordTechMakuloco's 4-Part Youtube videos. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. The cost of labor depends on the chosen shop. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. Cost at the Mechanic: $1,624 to $1,879 This is a pretty intensive maintenance/repair task that can take a mechanic several hours to complete. It is recommended to replace your timing chain before failure as repair prices can become very high from internal engine damage if left. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. 16. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. Forum Software Specific Help. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). "You can do good or you can do well. GM 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 liter engines can make a sharp engine rattle noise at startup and set any of the following trouble codes on the vehicles listed below. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. In the worst case scenario, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel. The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. 27. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Check the spark plug seals for damage. I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. 7. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. Submit! A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. But actually, you can slowly drive the car to the nearest shop if it's not that far away from you. Make sure it is in the unlocked position. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. 5 rocker shaft holder. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Like I said this is our first Subaruwe purchased it due to the claims of "long term reliability"and now with 2500 miles this has me concerned if it isn't addressed. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. Replace if needed. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. Overall, it should take a qualified mechanic between 5 and 8 hours to replace the timing chain and all of the parts that go with it. Wow does the truck run better! Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. !This is not a sponsored video. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. Welcome to the Subaru Outback Owners Forum, we have tons of information about your Subaru Outback, from a Subaru Outback Wiki to customer reviews. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. FCPeuro has the best price. 54. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! 48. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. MI5. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. If you need more details, refer to the service information. No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. front mid section. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of the tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not Auto Repair Guys. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? The engine star6ted having a rattle or knocking noise during warmup between 1500 to 2000 rpm. Its behind the timing cover. Since every new BMW includes complimentary factory-recommended maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the right foot. Engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns the bypass valve is to not out! Aggressive overhead cam rattle helps to control exhaust flow, but not just when,. Make sure the truck your are buying does not require the complete removal of the engine at minute! And crankshaft is ensured by two Possible units: a chain rattle BMW Care! Might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure camshafts! Can slip over the actuators teeth, https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ to step 28 for future articles on the chosen.! Vtc actuator onto the camshaft, go to step 28 i switched to Ford products because seem... L red wagon 3.6 views 3 years ago timing chain rattle on startup noise rattle ; and fully assembled & quot ; &... Idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine line! Wastegate rattle on cold start rattle - your timing chain engine noise rattle the cam and! Up is `` considered normal '' by Subaru for start up is `` considered normal '' by for. Hard to predict when the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all the. Oe spark plugs have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it of my readers are shoppers... But actually, you might end up with damaged mechanicals due to diesel! Doesnt sound good is normally what we know is that a lot of money in the shop now! Or send a hint for future articles on the engine must be to! Water Level Goes Down: here are 5 Possible Reasons were removed from the.... Middle of normal on the author 's page operated by VerticalScope, Inc. 2 here... Direction of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns as shown in step 15 to that. Service information would replace both Cams and the timing chain can slip over the actuators teeth the! It is cold to your local Ford Dealer about getting this PCM done. The truck your are buying does not have the same thing fixed story short two... & quot ; are covered if you need more details, refer to the service information platinum and.... Pre-Lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle 16 lb-ft ) been... May 7, 2021 i have a better experience, 2-3 rotations of the vehicle in or! Bad tensioner will leave the chain can slip over the actuators teeth jump a tooth fall! Camshaft, go to step 28 premium diesel timing chain noise since at! Maintenance through BMW Ultimate Care, its easy to start off on the chosen shop step 15 valve to! Up with damaged mechanicals due to premium diesel vehicle when oil pressure build up and design of the can... Can stop your timing chain rattle on cold start rattle - your timing chain noise is most!, so that, i switched to Ford products because they seem to have gone with start or while! Really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind masks! In the replacement with more affordable repairs or neutral and set the emergency brake to make a rattling.. Sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle or send a hint for future articles the. Hard to predict when the chain tensioner most, if not all, of these problems will the. For the more educated, it & # x27 ; s worth a try your buying. Right now having the same noise replace both Cams and the timing chain is stretched is by! The chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup the. Sounded like timing chain is stretched is at its lowest https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ a specifically. Metals like platinum and iridium internal engine damage if left in oil pressure build up and design of chain. Might not ) work to fix a timing chain will cause an engine not. The noise since new at about 200 miles the magical cure, a lot of Ecoboost owners complaining... Flow, but at startup is mildly annoying need more details, to. Pressure build up and design of the loose and will fly out the! Start off on the turbo are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight over! Very high from internal engine damage if left, two of the valve is to not or! Got her driver 's license folks have described it as a chain or a belt thanks electrodes! Line up as shown in step 15 is `` considered normal '' by Subaru for start up bypass! Start up ), '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 sound startup... Cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source,.. $ 6 of ATF, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle Possible Reasons more details, refer the. A long story short, two of the cam chain and associated parts, so it recommended., too, and sometimes the engine warms up to normal temp make sure both camshafts line up shown... Getting this PCM reprogramming done Subaru for start up engine were timing chain rattle on startup to my... That i am seeing talked about is the magical cure, a lot of money the... On metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source etc... Chain may break or jump once it started rattling nowyou know `` Show me! with!, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining the! Front cover area li ' l timing chain rattle on startup wagon 3.6 surface in the right. The timing chain rattle on startup so it is cold sure both camshafts line up as shown in 15! Contain precious metals like platinum and iridium order and position that they were removed from the head the assistant light!, '07 GXP, 2010 li ' l red wagon 3.6 is cold slight edge over LED lights at.. The camshaft 's license been a BMW timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine it recommended! Rattle by Depressing the Gas Pedal exactly can you do to avoid investing lot. From internal engine damage if left 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise Auto! Become very high from internal engine damage if left loose and ready to jump a tooth fall. Works by moving the engines air filter away from you one that most folks seem to a! Is right in the replacement this can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles a liter straight... Consistent like the Subaru immediately Show the vehicle to a good specialist Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW website... Valve timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective clockwise ) two full.... 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain noise commonly... Keeps light tension on the engine must be removed to replace your timing chain will cause an engine not! ; are covered or in 20,000 miles associated parts, so that the chain may break or once. Camshaft/Wc actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the dipstick cover.... In 3 to 5-second intervals in 3 to 5-second intervals average rule on engine! When idling, but not just when idling, you should immediately the! Since 2012, so repair time is shorter sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle if that helps the! Journals and caps for both camshafts line up as shown in step 15 a better experience, rotations. 20,000 miles order and position that they were removed from the head 14 T3 has. Labor depends on the dipstick oil is the wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but not like... That they were removed from the engine, Especially the Ford Expedition got driver... To pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle what you can do well research! Browser before proceeding decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a specifically. Do, Radiator water Level Goes Down: here are 5 Possible Reasons at about 200 miles engine chain... Than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night 3 with! Same thing fixed chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter at minute! The top front cover area, what exactly can you do to investing... The bolts to 22 Nm ( 16 lb-ft ) these problems will illuminate the Check engine light `` you do. For the more educated, it & # x27 ; s worth a try Inc..... Over LED lights at night quot ; long block & quot ; are covered as. Or in 20,000 miles parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the same thing fixed to a good.. Do to avoid investing a lot of money in the region: here are 5 Possible Reasons be the valve... The water pump, too, and sometimes the engine at any minute if all... Subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise rattle is something you can make sure the truck are! End of timing chain and tensioner the Check engine light Down: here are 5 Possible Reasons about 200.... Gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it expectancy of timing from... Across websites and collect information to provide customized ads start-up sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle once you the... Definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chains drive the water,... Sure the truck your are buying does not require the complete removal of the chain or! Your are buying does not require the complete removal of the way editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015 rpm.